I guess you haven´t seen the 15" Rudes that someone is selling for 1500:- on drummersunited.se. If those hats are OK i would say the price is really great.

No I actually haven't, I haven't been on there for a while, until just recently.

Just reviving an old thread, as the hi-hat issue has to be dealt with, preferably before this summer.

I just listened to some Giant Beats on Memphis drumshop on youtube, and they sound SO GOOD!

I also heard from somebody that it is the bottom hat that makes most of the sound character. Is this true? Because in that case I maybe could switch out the GB top for say, a 2002 or Twenty, as the GB top is listed as medium thin and I'd be afraid to break it. I don't expect the exact same sound, but maybe a different ut good sound, or an even better sound... You never know.

What do ya'll think?

"Hi-hats are like a box of chocolates - ya' never know what you're gonna get..."

I've never heard any theories that help predict hat sounds - like heavy bottoms will do this, and light tops will do that. It just seems to be a gamble.

Although I'm willing to bet that someone (like Gongman) has some pearls of wisdom...

Even flipping a set upside down changes the sound, and not really able to justify that in a rational manner.

I guess, as you alluded to, just have to try it and see what happens. <again the lament of limited Paiste selection to play and test at so many local stores>

One thing of note - to anyone interested in experimenting - is that when they sell the prototypes, they tend to sell the proto hats as individual, as opposed to sets. I would be interested in testing this - but I don't know if I have enough hats of similar size and alloy to add much value.

I know, I guess I'll just have to test. Unfortunately my store only has two higher-end Paiste hats, on pair of 2002 Mediums and one pair of Trads (which actually gave me an idea, may be the Trad bottom could work with something).

Anyway, does anyone know if there is some truth to "the bottom-hat makes most of the character" -thing?

I've not heard that said specifically. I would think it's almost the opposite, that the top hat accounts for more since the top is the one that gets struck the most, or at least is what gets directly hit by the sticks.

I agree with L-Phreak. Certainly with todays freakishly heavy bottom cymbals (14" +1,5 kg bottom cymbal -- gimme a break!) the bottom isn't going to play a huge role soundwise regardless of playing techniques, with the possible exception of forceful 'slosh' hi-hat playing.

With hats like the DE:s or the Sig DC:s, were there is a big weigh difference between top and bottom, the objective with the heavy bottom has more to do with the function of the top cymbal than it has to do with the sound of the bottom cymbal itself; a modern heavy bottom works primarily as a solid slab for quickly and resolutely dampening the top cymbal, making it easy to produce very precise and sharp foot chicks and hi-hat 'barks' with little or no 'over-ring'. All requirements of many modern playing styles.

So if the bottom cymbal is said to give the hats their main character, it's because the bottom stipulates how the top will function or work, thus mostly indirectly effecting the sound of the hi-hat.

Just my two cents.

Also, about the top cymbal getting 'the beating': Ever wondered why it's easier finding a single Sound Creation bottom, but infintely harder finding a single SC top...?

Thanks guys! It's really helpful! Now, I've limited my options and custom parirings down to these:

Regular pairing:
14" DE MarkI Hats
14" Twenty Hats
Possibly 14" 2002 Mediums
15" 2002 Soundedge Hats (might be too loud for the hippie/blues/rock stuff)

Custom Pairing:
14" 2002 Medium Top over Giant Beat bottom
14" Twenty Top over Giant Beat bottom
14" DE Top over Trad Medium-Light bottom (these are supposed to sound good, according to SKC)
14" Twenty over Trad Med. Light bottom
14" 2002 over Trad Med. Light bottom
14" Twenty over 2002 Soundedge bottom

And finding a store with all these in, is virtually impossible.

That's a nice list!

I've probably said this a thousand times already: The Trad bottom is my mainstay bottom cymbal. I works beautifully with many different top cymbals.

I use the DE top/Trad bottom combination a lot, Olli! It's nice for most of the stuff I'm involved in, but I suppose you can't draw an infinite amout of decibel out of this pair. So to speak. And to my ears, this combo lose much of its total fabulousness, when pushed too much volume wise.

If I'm playing a higher volume gig, I might chose the Sig Med hi-hat top over the Trad instead. Still a nice mellow couple, but with increased bite potential. (Then you'll have the beautiful Sig Med bottom free to play with the Trad top -- an excuisite pair when you're playing the brushes!)

The 2002 Crunch top is very nice with the Trad bottom also!

If we're talking 14" hats, I personally find the 2002 Med hats a bit too light (What did he just say????) Weight wise the 2002 Heavy hats are similar to the Sig Med hats. A bit surprising really, but true! I'd go for the Heavys instead. Speaking of 15" hats on the other hand, those 2002 Mediums are t-a-s-t-y!

Thanks, sjolsson! Yes, iv'e heard from several that the DE top over Trad bottom is very nice. SKC said you could play metal with them too (but with my metalband developing so slowly, I'm more likely to be playing more rock/blues than metal) I actually don't expect all the character to be upheld at higher volumes too. I'm the drummer, so I'm most likely to hear it, and most of the people I play for, just hear them as hi-hats anyway...

Yes, both the 14" 2002 Sound Edge and 2002 Medium are a bit thin and tinny sounding. The 15" are always nice (my size of preference) but this time, I want to have something a little less sloshy. I was into the Heavy Hats, but I'm worried they might be too clangy. Never did think of the Sig Medium top over the Trad (never really cared for Sig hats really), but we'll see.

Guess Stockholm Musikbörsen Slagverket is the best place to try all these out, if they have 'em all.

Keep the comments on my list coming, I want more opinions on what might work!

Olli - when I bought the Twenty top hat, I already had a Dimes Thin-Heavy bottom. The T-H bottom happened to weigh the same as the Twenty bottoms, so it wasn't a far stretch to think the T-H might pair up well with a Twenty top. By luck, they did sound good but it could have gone the other way. That's not to say a thinner or heavier top or bottom wouldn't work with the other, or a differently lathed one or a different alloy.

It's hard to say exactly, since there are so many weights and variations with hats. However, there is at least one bottom hat, the Dark Crisp, that I know I wouldn't like with any top. IMO, the crisp and "dirty" sound of DC's is nice but that bottom hat is too clangy for stronger open playing. That's one of the freakishly heavy bottoms that sj is talking about!

If you could play some of the regular DEs or Twenties or 2oo2s first, they might just be exactly what you like. If not, then you could try some mix n' matching if you can get the "right" models together.

For the hippie stuff i would suggest trying to find a set of 15" BL 2002 Heavy "rock" hats. To me these hats are everything the Giant Beats i had should have been.... Great, great hats. I would also like to recommend the 15" Dark Energy hats, i can spend hours with those hats.

Thanks LP and pnt! Yes, I do plan to look and hear some factory matched hats first, but so far from soundfiles, the only ones I like are too small or to thin. But I'll give them a play.

pnt - Great suggestion! Though the black labels are a little hard to come by. I'll have to keep looking for 'em!

Do the shops in your area have any of the ones you want to check out?

The shop where I live used to be one of Swedens most well-sorted stores ever. Now it's futile.

Last time I checked, it only had a couple of 2002 14" Mediums.